1 00:00:24,740 --> 00:00:09,089 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:30,350 --> 00:00:27,360 hello and welcome to the skeptics are an 3 00:00:36,660 --> 00:00:30,360 episode number 393 for the first of may 4 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:36,670 2016 Richard Saunders now trying to 5 00:00:42,930 --> 00:00:39,370 bring you the show with two little 6 00:00:46,290 --> 00:00:42,940 kittens on my lap okay you too hot down 7 00:00:48,090 --> 00:00:46,300 there they're very helpful you see what 8 00:00:50,310 --> 00:00:48,100 they want to do is help me produce the 9 00:00:53,490 --> 00:00:50,320 skeptic zone coming up on this week's 10 00:00:57,500 --> 00:00:53,500 show if i can get to my computer here 11 00:00:59,670 --> 00:00:57,510 and put it together it's alright mm-hmm 12 00:01:01,500 --> 00:00:59,680 coming up on this week's show we're 13 00:01:04,979 --> 00:01:01,510 going to start off with an update about 14 00:01:08,730 --> 00:01:04,989 the chiropractor who was manipulating 15 00:01:12,990 --> 00:01:08,740 cracking treating i wouldn't use that 16 00:01:15,630 --> 00:01:13,000 word a four day old baby as mentioned in 17 00:01:17,969 --> 00:01:15,640 previous skeptics owns the video has 18 00:01:20,550 --> 00:01:17,979 gone viral and it's causing a lot of 19 00:01:23,010 --> 00:01:20,560 controversy around the world so right at 20 00:01:25,230 --> 00:01:23,020 the start of the show an update to this 21 00:01:27,749 --> 00:01:25,240 story following that it's a little 22 00:01:31,410 --> 00:01:27,759 review i'm doing about conspiracy theory 23 00:01:34,410 --> 00:01:31,420 centering on the port arthur massacre 20 24 00:01:36,719 --> 00:01:34,420 years ago now we're 35 people lost their 25 00:01:39,660 --> 00:01:36,729 lives and like any mass shooting these 26 00:01:42,020 --> 00:01:39,670 days it seems to me the conspiracy 27 00:01:45,389 --> 00:01:42,030 theories have come out of there 28 00:01:48,810 --> 00:01:45,399 wormholes out of the woodwork making a 29 00:01:50,999 --> 00:01:48,820 general pest of themselves conspiracy 30 00:01:53,639 --> 00:01:51,009 theories san during on the port arthur 31 00:01:55,679 --> 00:01:53,649 massacre coming up a little later on in 32 00:01:57,719 --> 00:01:55,689 the show and a little bit of information 33 00:02:00,749 --> 00:01:57,729 about my upcoming appearance at the 34 00:02:03,450 --> 00:02:00,759 perak on the paranormal convention here 35 00:02:07,109 --> 00:02:03,460 in in australia up in the blue mountains 36 00:02:08,730 --> 00:02:07,119 the wonderful town of katoomba then to 37 00:02:13,070 --> 00:02:08,740 round off the show a report about the 38 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:13,080 movie vax the year andrew wakefield 39 00:02:17,940 --> 00:02:16,210 effort talking about conspiracy theories 40 00:02:19,950 --> 00:02:17,950 now over the past few weeks I've been 41 00:02:21,620 --> 00:02:19,960 trying to get myself together after 42 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:21,630 suffering some sort of a flu or a cold 43 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:24,970 something like that and a couple of days 44 00:02:30,860 --> 00:02:27,490 I found myself well a bit wiped out to 45 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:30,870 be honest not much else to do except 46 00:02:36,660 --> 00:02:33,910 take some aspirin and watch a bit of TV 47 00:02:40,140 --> 00:02:36,670 I was watching a show produced here in 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:40,150 Australia Wow 20 years ago called 49 00:02:43,950 --> 00:02:42,130 frontline and this is produced by the 50 00:02:48,540 --> 00:02:43,960 working dog the same people who brought 51 00:02:50,690 --> 00:02:48,550 you the dish and the castle and recently 52 00:02:53,250 --> 00:02:50,700 utopia which is a very funny show 53 00:02:57,750 --> 00:02:53,260 frontline send it around the fictional 54 00:03:00,810 --> 00:02:57,760 office of a TV a current affairs tabloid 55 00:03:02,610 --> 00:03:00,820 type show and I enjoyed it very much I 56 00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:02,620 enjoy it 20 years ago and I mean doing 57 00:03:06,390 --> 00:03:04,390 it very much looking at it again all 58 00:03:08,310 --> 00:03:06,400 these years later it's still relevant 59 00:03:12,690 --> 00:03:08,320 but I thought I'd play you a very short 60 00:03:17,070 --> 00:03:12,700 clip from one of the episodes and it's 61 00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:17,080 amazing how relevant it is today next 62 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:21,520 I've got a story I doctor who reckons 63 00:03:25,230 --> 00:03:23,770 vaccinating kids can be dangerous that's 64 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:25,240 account of here's a question I love 65 00:03:29,700 --> 00:03:27,730 children plus danger to children equals 66 00:03:31,830 --> 00:03:29,710 brooke d the story right right next 67 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:31,840 how's Brooke going with that what's at 68 00:03:35,910 --> 00:03:33,850 the vaccination guy it's a bit dodgy 69 00:03:37,500 --> 00:03:35,920 he's a bit of a kook well he's a doctor 70 00:03:38,850 --> 00:03:37,510 no he's a natural birth he's got no 71 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:38,860 formal medical training well he's 72 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:40,930 raising legitimate concern our 73 00:03:45,330 --> 00:03:43,450 vaccinations dangerous but surely this 74 00:03:47,910 --> 00:03:45,340 is not I'm not a doctor whatever is he 75 00:03:49,740 --> 00:03:47,920 well we'll get both sides we're on size 76 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:49,750 just one quack vs world health 77 00:03:53,910 --> 00:03:52,090 organization that's sides by giving him 78 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:53,920 equal time we imply that the debate is 79 00:04:01,320 --> 00:03:55,570 evenly matched with creating concern 80 00:04:04,020 --> 00:04:01,330 over nothing em em you have a child do 81 00:04:06,210 --> 00:04:04,030 you love it with all my heart tonight on 82 00:04:09,090 --> 00:04:06,220 Frontline could a vaccination kill your 83 00:04:10,470 --> 00:04:09,100 child will show you what frontline and 84 00:04:12,060 --> 00:04:10,480 what do we want people to do what 85 00:04:14,190 --> 00:04:12,070 frontline know what story are we gonna 86 00:04:16,260 --> 00:04:14,200 run tonight on Frontline vaccinations 87 00:04:18,599 --> 00:04:16,270 both sides of this controversial and 88 00:04:20,729 --> 00:04:18,609 evenly matched abate gee thank you in 89 00:04:22,950 --> 00:04:20,739 but it could home to my kids anything 90 00:04:26,220 --> 00:04:22,960 else so there you go even 20 years ago 91 00:04:29,790 --> 00:04:26,230 this issue of false balance in the media 92 00:04:32,010 --> 00:04:29,800 was was coming up now for those of you 93 00:04:34,620 --> 00:04:32,020 in Sydney the next skeptics in the pub 94 00:04:37,020 --> 00:04:34,630 is thursday the fifth of may at the 95 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:37,030 crown hotel which is just near museum 96 00:04:42,420 --> 00:04:39,490 station now that kicks off at six pm and 97 00:04:44,070 --> 00:04:42,430 the talk this month is about well well 98 00:04:46,710 --> 00:04:44,080 conspiracy theories there must be 99 00:04:47,670 --> 00:04:46,720 conspiracy going on all hail the lizard 100 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:47,680 people 101 00:04:52,580 --> 00:04:49,690 dr. Chris Fleming on the reason and 102 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:52,590 madness in conspiracy theory here's 103 00:04:56,159 --> 00:04:54,490 conspiracy theories I think that's going 104 00:04:59,070 --> 00:04:56,169 to be very popular night you might want 105 00:05:02,820 --> 00:04:59,080 to go onto the web go to meet up look up 106 00:05:06,150 --> 00:05:02,830 Australian skeptics or meetup com /a ust 107 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:06,160 skeptics and book your spot and we'll 108 00:05:10,340 --> 00:05:08,110 see you at skeptics in the pub here in 109 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:10,350 Sydney but now with my voice starting to 110 00:05:16,350 --> 00:05:13,870 run away with me again oh boy this is 111 00:05:19,170 --> 00:05:16,360 cold or whatever it is really dragging 112 00:05:21,930 --> 00:05:19,180 never mind i know i'll run downstairs 113 00:05:23,999 --> 00:05:21,940 i'll give the cats the skeptic zone 114 00:05:25,499 --> 00:05:24,009 kittens a little bit of chicken neck 115 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:25,509 each they love that while they're 116 00:05:46,290 --> 00:05:28,690 crunching that i hope you enjoy the 117 00:05:53,830 --> 00:05:49,770 and now another update in the continuing 118 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:53,840 drama saga story tale of the 119 00:06:00,939 --> 00:05:56,930 chiropractor who cracked the back four 120 00:06:03,850 --> 00:06:00,949 day old baby weaving that following this 121 00:06:05,740 --> 00:06:03,860 story for some weeks now briefly there's 122 00:06:08,290 --> 00:06:05,750 a video of a chiropractor here in 123 00:06:10,540 --> 00:06:08,300 Australia manipulating the back of a 124 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:10,550 baby in a violent jerking manner you can 125 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:13,510 hear the baby's back being cracked 126 00:06:19,930 --> 00:06:16,490 baby's only four days old baby starts to 127 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:19,940 cry I need not tell you there is no good 128 00:06:25,379 --> 00:06:22,610 evidence to suggest that doing this has 129 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:25,389 any positive effects whatsoever 130 00:06:30,010 --> 00:06:28,130 apparently the treatment is for colic 131 00:06:32,290 --> 00:06:30,020 and it's been pointed out that a four 132 00:06:34,570 --> 00:06:32,300 day old baby is far too young to be 133 00:06:36,159 --> 00:06:34,580 diagnosed with colic anyway but in the 134 00:06:38,230 --> 00:06:36,169 last few days the president of the 135 00:06:41,140 --> 00:06:38,240 chiropractor's Association of Australia 136 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:41,150 has said that doctors are overreacting 137 00:06:46,029 --> 00:06:43,490 to the video that shows the newborn 138 00:06:48,460 --> 00:06:46,039 baby's spine being manipulated dr. 139 00:06:50,110 --> 00:06:48,470 Anthony coxon the president of the 140 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:50,120 Victorian branch of the chiropractors 141 00:06:54,730 --> 00:06:52,310 Association of Australia said the 142 00:06:56,860 --> 00:06:54,740 treatment was forceful but effective and 143 00:06:58,870 --> 00:06:56,870 he said quote while I am uncomfortable 144 00:07:02,469 --> 00:06:58,880 with the procedure that was performed 145 00:07:04,330 --> 00:07:02,479 it's still a safe procedure and quote he 146 00:07:06,820 --> 00:07:04,340 went on to say quote I know it doesn't 147 00:07:09,610 --> 00:07:06,830 look good but the child did get a very 148 00:07:12,010 --> 00:07:09,620 good result and immediate result from 149 00:07:14,620 --> 00:07:12,020 the care when the parents returned a 150 00:07:16,930 --> 00:07:14,630 week later the colic symptoms had 151 00:07:18,850 --> 00:07:16,940 improved significantly it's not the 152 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:18,860 choice of technique that most 153 00:07:23,439 --> 00:07:20,810 chiropractors would use for these sort 154 00:07:25,110 --> 00:07:23,449 of problems but it is very effective and 155 00:07:29,230 --> 00:07:25,120 despite the fact it doesn't look good 156 00:07:32,290 --> 00:07:29,240 it's still very safe and quote it sort 157 00:07:34,830 --> 00:07:32,300 of reminds me of the alternative medical 158 00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:34,840 field in general where they dare not 159 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:37,990 criticize each other it's interesting 160 00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:41,210 the homeopaths won't criticize the Reiki 161 00:07:45,430 --> 00:07:43,310 practitioners the Reiki practitioners 162 00:07:47,950 --> 00:07:45,440 won't criticize the acupuncturist and so 163 00:07:51,070 --> 00:07:47,960 on and so on and so on I guess once one 164 00:07:51,750 --> 00:07:51,080 treatment is seen to be bogus it might 165 00:07:54,690 --> 00:07:51,760 be a case 166 00:07:56,850 --> 00:07:54,700 of Domino's they'll falling down let's 167 00:08:00,540 --> 00:07:56,860 see and here is a report on the issue 168 00:08:03,450 --> 00:08:00,550 from the channel 7 TV news here in 169 00:08:05,550 --> 00:08:03,460 Australia a long-running feud between 170 00:08:07,770 --> 00:08:05,560 doctors and chiropractors has erupted 171 00:08:10,290 --> 00:08:07,780 again this time over a shocking video 172 00:08:12,390 --> 00:08:10,300 that went viral thousands of Australians 173 00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:12,400 swear by them but some chiropractors are 174 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:14,470 being condemned for controversial 175 00:08:21,570 --> 00:08:17,290 practices including cracking a distress 176 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:21,580 newborn babies back a baby back row it's 177 00:08:26,970 --> 00:08:24,490 a code all around the world the video 178 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:26,980 shows a chiropractor cracking a newborn 179 00:08:31,290 --> 00:08:29,050 babies back that chiropractor is 180 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:31,300 melbourne-based in ross perot who's 181 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:33,850 treating a four day old baby for reflux 182 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:36,370 and colic that hurts to be crying but if 183 00:08:41,010 --> 00:08:38,410 the baby isn't crying others are 184 00:08:43,650 --> 00:08:41,020 melbourne spinal surgeon John Cunningham 185 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:43,660 says the clip made his eyes water while 186 00:08:49,260 --> 00:08:45,850 the head pediatrician at Darwin Hospital 187 00:08:51,540 --> 00:08:49,270 says it's beyond belief today this from 188 00:08:53,580 --> 00:08:51,550 the Royal Australian College of GPS it 189 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:53,590 seems to me personally unnecessary and 190 00:08:57,390 --> 00:08:55,450 cruel to do that to a newborn baby with 191 00:08:59,550 --> 00:08:57,400 carros now advertising treatments for 192 00:09:02,430 --> 00:08:59,560 everything from asthma to eczema the 193 00:09:04,350 --> 00:09:02,440 college says this is the final straw the 194 00:09:06,270 --> 00:09:04,360 role of the current practice haven't 195 00:09:07,770 --> 00:09:06,280 really got to be examined and they've 196 00:09:09,630 --> 00:09:07,780 really got to get their act together the 197 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:09,640 college on behalf of every GP in the 198 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:12,130 country is now reviewing its position on 199 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:14,650 chiropractic care options include 200 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:16,690 refusing referrals for children even 201 00:09:21,570 --> 00:09:18,850 adults and demanding that medicare 202 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:21,580 rebates for kairos be scrapped citing 203 00:09:26,220 --> 00:09:23,770 little to no scientific evidence to 204 00:09:28,890 --> 00:09:26,230 support much of the work chiropractors 205 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:28,900 do the research is out there but we're 206 00:09:32,850 --> 00:09:30,970 working very hard to try and improve it 207 00:09:35,130 --> 00:09:32,860 and build on that low back pain neck 208 00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:35,140 pain neck related headaches the research 209 00:09:40,710 --> 00:09:38,080 is very strong dr. Andrew Rochford 7 210 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:40,720 News and thank you 7 news that sent a 211 00:09:46,420 --> 00:09:44,650 you news yahoo com it seems like this 212 00:09:48,579 --> 00:09:46,430 story is why 213 00:10:08,949 --> 00:09:48,589 we'll continue and will bring you 214 00:10:13,090 --> 00:10:08,959 updates as they come to him secrets of 215 00:10:15,490 --> 00:10:13,100 the psychics Australian skeptics Sydney 216 00:10:18,850 --> 00:10:15,500 dinner meeting fourth of June at the 217 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:18,860 ride Eastwood leagues club in west 218 00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:21,850 riding in preparation for the visit by 219 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:25,760 psychic medium John Edward to Australia 220 00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:27,770 we're thrilled to have a special event 221 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:30,110 for our next dinner meeting in Sydney 222 00:10:35,730 --> 00:10:32,690 and double act with a demonstration of 223 00:10:38,860 --> 00:10:35,740 psychic powers by self professed psychic 224 00:10:41,170 --> 00:10:38,870 Nellie Klein and an explanation of the 225 00:10:44,019 --> 00:10:41,180 psychic skills by Richard Saunders judge 226 00:10:46,660 --> 00:10:44,029 of the psychic TV challenge show the one 227 00:10:49,510 --> 00:10:46,670 and senior investigator for Australian 228 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:49,520 skeptic sinker miss Klein has agreed to 229 00:10:55,060 --> 00:10:51,730 do readings of members of our audience 230 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:55,070 giving you the chance to see her psychic 231 00:10:59,530 --> 00:10:57,290 powers in action and see how accurate 232 00:11:01,870 --> 00:10:59,540 they are Richard will follow this with a 233 00:11:04,570 --> 00:11:01,880 presentation of psychic tricks of the 234 00:11:07,930 --> 00:11:04,580 trade using his extensive knowledge and 235 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:07,940 confrontation with claimers that sounds 236 00:11:11,620 --> 00:11:09,290 interesting i might even go to this one 237 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:11,630 myself so that's the australian skeptics 238 00:11:16,780 --> 00:11:13,490 our dinner meeting the fourth of june at 239 00:11:21,790 --> 00:11:16,790 the ride eastwood leagues club and west 240 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:21,800 ryde are 6 34 7 15 it says cost is fifty 241 00:11:25,930 --> 00:11:23,450 dollars per person which includes a 242 00:11:28,390 --> 00:11:25,940 buffet dinner and the dinners there up t 243 00:11:31,060 --> 00:11:28,400 damn good plus a lucky door prize 244 00:11:35,250 --> 00:11:31,070 somebody will get their ticket refunded 245 00:12:05,840 --> 00:11:35,260 for more information visit www.pay akame 246 00:12:14,639 --> 00:12:10,650 one of the golden threads golden one of 247 00:12:16,650 --> 00:12:14,649 the rusted through the cane threads that 248 00:12:19,139 --> 00:12:16,660 binds a lot of what skeptics have to 249 00:12:20,910 --> 00:12:19,149 deal with together our conspiracy 250 00:12:23,069 --> 00:12:20,920 theorists everything from the 251 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:23,079 assassination of President John F 252 00:12:32,639 --> 00:12:27,850 Kennedy in 1963 to the moon landings to 253 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:32,649 the real evil force behind vaccinations 254 00:12:38,970 --> 00:12:35,610 to the government or the Illuminati or 255 00:12:42,630 --> 00:12:38,980 aliens or whoever poisoning our 256 00:12:44,730 --> 00:12:42,640 atmosphere with chem trails left behind 257 00:12:46,530 --> 00:12:44,740 by commercial jet planes conspiracy 258 00:12:48,569 --> 00:12:46,540 theories to those of the right sort of 259 00:12:51,060 --> 00:12:48,579 mindset or maybe we should say the wrong 260 00:12:54,090 --> 00:12:51,070 sort of mindset I'm very seductive and 261 00:12:57,690 --> 00:12:54,100 compelling they make sense they're also 262 00:13:01,650 --> 00:12:57,700 a way for people to seem to have the 263 00:13:03,260 --> 00:13:01,660 advantage of a skeptics like us classic 264 00:13:05,790 --> 00:13:03,270 example is the John F Kennedy 265 00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:05,800 assassination I had a conversation with 266 00:13:09,810 --> 00:13:07,600 a conspiracy theorist about this once 267 00:13:12,510 --> 00:13:09,820 and the conspiracy theorists did 268 00:13:14,810 --> 00:13:12,520 something we call gish galloping is 269 00:13:16,980 --> 00:13:14,820 where your opponent will just bring up 270 00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:16,990 point after point after point after 271 00:13:23,939 --> 00:13:20,320 point which you cannot possibly refute 272 00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:23,949 in the time given or even research or 273 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:28,630 even know about so my opponent as it 274 00:13:32,610 --> 00:13:30,370 were was bringing up all sorts of things 275 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:32,620 saying how do you explain then mr. 276 00:13:35,310 --> 00:13:33,970 skeptic that Lyndon Johnson was 277 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:35,320 overheard only two days before 278 00:13:39,180 --> 00:13:36,970 discussing the assassination of 279 00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:39,190 President Kennedy with the head of this 280 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:41,680 company or that company now what are you 281 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:44,050 going to do how can you possibly refute 282 00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:45,850 that on the spot you don't even know if 283 00:13:49,260 --> 00:13:47,350 it's true which it probably isn't and 284 00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:49,270 that's another thing that the conspiracy 285 00:13:54,749 --> 00:13:50,649 theorists will 286 00:13:56,759 --> 00:13:54,759 use if you as the skeptic cannot refute 287 00:13:59,999 --> 00:13:56,769 their arguments no matter what their 288 00:14:01,980 --> 00:14:00,009 arguments are to the nth degree they 289 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:01,990 will take that as a victory for their 290 00:14:06,569 --> 00:14:03,850 argument you can't debunk this mr. 291 00:14:08,970 --> 00:14:06,579 skeptic therefore i win is sort of a 292 00:14:11,819 --> 00:14:08,980 thinking well let's look at a conspiracy 293 00:14:14,220 --> 00:14:11,829 theory that's in the news lately and one 294 00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:14,230 that I've heard about for some time and 295 00:14:20,189 --> 00:14:17,110 when I first heard about it or six seven 296 00:14:24,419 --> 00:14:20,199 years ago it really did really did 297 00:14:27,179 --> 00:14:24,429 surprise me really did shock me in 1996 298 00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:27,189 at Port Arthur on the island state of 299 00:14:33,689 --> 00:14:30,540 Tasmania terrible massacre took place 300 00:14:38,759 --> 00:14:33,699 Martin Bryant a lone gunman 28 of the 301 00:14:40,829 --> 00:14:38,769 time shot dead 35 people and wounded 23 302 00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:40,839 others the story made international news 303 00:14:45,689 --> 00:14:43,360 of course and it's regarded as one of 304 00:14:48,530 --> 00:14:45,699 Australia's worst single person 305 00:14:51,210 --> 00:14:48,540 massacres now before I go any further 306 00:14:53,669 --> 00:14:51,220 we're just combining ourselves to this 307 00:14:55,290 --> 00:14:53,679 as though terrible massacre I do of 308 00:14:58,199 --> 00:14:55,300 course acknowledge that there have been 309 00:15:00,299 --> 00:14:58,209 other atrocities and massacres dating 310 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:00,309 back throughout Australia's history 311 00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:02,410 however for the flow of this 312 00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:04,089 conversation will confine ourselves to 313 00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:06,959 the single person port arthur massacre 314 00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:10,240 here is the audio from a news report of 315 00:15:21,740 --> 00:15:16,240 the time seven nightly news with an 316 00:15:26,460 --> 00:15:24,030 the shooting spree that's shattered 317 00:15:28,769 --> 00:15:26,470 dozens of lives grief and anger tonight 318 00:15:32,910 --> 00:15:28,779 as a nation searches for answers to the 319 00:15:34,679 --> 00:15:32,920 slaughter good evening all Australians 320 00:15:37,199 --> 00:15:34,689 tonight share the horror of the port 321 00:15:39,569 --> 00:15:37,209 arthur massacre 35 people are dead a 322 00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:39,579 teener injured police have now named the 323 00:15:43,889 --> 00:15:41,680 mass murder he is 28 year old Martin 324 00:15:46,199 --> 00:15:43,899 Bryant a local man believed to be 325 00:15:48,090 --> 00:15:46,209 intellectually handicapped he's in royal 326 00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,100 hobart hospital tonight suffering burns 327 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:50,560 to his upper body after running from the 328 00:15:54,540 --> 00:15:52,930 guest lodge that he satellite yes a 329 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:54,550 horrible story and I certainly remember 330 00:15:59,819 --> 00:15:57,250 hearing the news on the day hard to 331 00:16:02,100 --> 00:15:59,829 believe it was 20 years ago but getting 332 00:16:04,850 --> 00:16:02,110 back to the conspiracy theory yes there 333 00:16:07,949 --> 00:16:04,860 has been for some time now a theory that 334 00:16:12,210 --> 00:16:07,959 Martin Bryant was the Patsy the fall guy 335 00:16:15,540 --> 00:16:12,220 for a conspiracy where marksman marks 336 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:15,550 women were also at Port Arthur on the 337 00:16:23,009 --> 00:16:17,050 day to make sure that a lot of people 338 00:16:26,309 --> 00:16:23,019 were killed why to disarm Australians 339 00:16:28,679 --> 00:16:26,319 because shortly thereafter the prime 340 00:16:30,269 --> 00:16:28,689 minister at the time John Howard began 341 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:30,279 the process of changing the laws in 342 00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:35,290 Australia to take serious firearms off 343 00:16:40,019 --> 00:16:37,120 the streets now this was very 344 00:16:42,269 --> 00:16:40,029 controversial especially to the people 345 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:42,279 in the rural areas of Australia and 346 00:16:46,379 --> 00:16:44,170 farmers and so on who have a legitimate 347 00:16:49,019 --> 00:16:46,389 use for guns of course and there were 348 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:49,029 protests and all sorts of things going 349 00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:51,370 on but the point is these laws were 350 00:16:56,460 --> 00:16:54,220 passed thousands and thousands of 351 00:16:59,460 --> 00:16:56,470 firearms were taken off the streets they 352 00:17:02,009 --> 00:16:59,470 had a gun buyback and destroyed now we 353 00:17:05,399 --> 00:17:02,019 still have gun crime in Australia of 354 00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:05,409 course criminals have guns but it is 355 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:08,260 rare exceedingly rare when you think of 356 00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:11,530 this situation in the United States we 357 00:17:15,539 --> 00:17:13,569 don't have anything in our Constitution 358 00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:15,549 that says we have the right to bear arms 359 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:17,049 and I don't think you'll find too many 360 00:17:21,809 --> 00:17:19,089 people in Australia who would want to 361 00:17:24,120 --> 00:17:21,819 have this right to bear arms to walk 362 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:24,130 around with the handguns to have guns in 363 00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:26,890 the home we just don't have them and I 364 00:17:30,159 --> 00:17:29,200 don't think we miss them security guards 365 00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:30,169 God 366 00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:32,480 banks and money and trains that have 367 00:17:38,259 --> 00:17:36,080 firearms police have firearms I can't 368 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:38,269 think of many other people who would so 369 00:17:44,409 --> 00:17:40,850 to even see a gun is pretty rare the 370 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:44,419 closest I've come to firing a gun was on 371 00:17:49,479 --> 00:17:47,210 a farm and that was an air rifle and I 372 00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:49,489 think that puts me ahead of most 373 00:17:54,759 --> 00:17:51,049 Australians who would have never even 374 00:17:56,979 --> 00:17:54,769 have touched a gun of any description by 375 00:17:59,619 --> 00:17:56,989 getting back to the massacre itself the 376 00:18:03,159 --> 00:17:59,629 eyewitnesses are plentiful although of 377 00:18:05,799 --> 00:18:03,169 course chroma tised there was a special 378 00:18:08,229 --> 00:18:05,809 on the TV not so long ago interviewing 379 00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:08,239 some of the eyewitnesses for the first 380 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:09,679 time some of them for the first time in 381 00:18:14,499 --> 00:18:11,330 20 years coming forward to put their 382 00:18:16,599 --> 00:18:14,509 story there is grainy video handheld 383 00:18:20,019 --> 00:18:16,609 video made at the time of Martin Bryan 384 00:18:23,229 --> 00:18:20,029 walking around the port arthur area 385 00:18:25,869 --> 00:18:23,239 there is no evidence of any other people 386 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:25,879 involved let alone some sort of special 387 00:18:31,060 --> 00:18:29,330 forces or government agents or phantoms 388 00:18:34,539 --> 00:18:31,070 from the Illuminati or whatever they'll 389 00:18:36,460 --> 00:18:34,549 have you believe for a good overview of 390 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:36,470 the conspiracy theories in the port 391 00:18:42,849 --> 00:18:38,570 arthur massacre i can recommend the 392 00:18:45,369 --> 00:18:42,859 sceptile episode 253 the port arthur 393 00:18:47,889 --> 00:18:45,379 massacre and in the news lately a 394 00:18:49,779 --> 00:18:47,899 graphic film parently depicting the 395 00:18:51,759 --> 00:18:49,789 horror of the port arthur massacre will 396 00:18:54,729 --> 00:18:51,769 go ahead by an australian producer paul 397 00:18:58,989 --> 00:18:54,739 modder who it seems is casting doubt on 398 00:19:01,599 --> 00:18:58,999 the official explanation and story of 399 00:19:03,759 --> 00:19:01,609 the massacre itself now this producer 400 00:19:06,849 --> 00:19:03,769 was a guest on the current affairs show 401 00:19:09,820 --> 00:19:06,859 the project recently to discuss his 402 00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:09,830 movie and he came up against presenter 403 00:19:15,849 --> 00:19:12,559 Waleed Aly now Waleed Aly is getting 404 00:19:18,249 --> 00:19:15,859 reputation in Australia as being a fine 405 00:19:22,180 --> 00:19:18,259 journalist and I think he's even up for 406 00:19:24,009 --> 00:19:22,190 a TV award this year for the the best 407 00:19:25,779 --> 00:19:24,019 personality on Australian TV or 408 00:19:28,389 --> 00:19:25,789 something like that and the project of 409 00:19:31,180 --> 00:19:28,399 course is the TV show and which are very 410 00:19:33,549 --> 00:19:31,190 own dr. Rachel dr. Rachel Dunlop appears 411 00:19:36,249 --> 00:19:33,559 on from time to time and I've even 412 00:19:38,619 --> 00:19:36,259 appeared on the show myself talking 413 00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:38,629 about skeptical matters well let's 414 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:42,289 listen in to hear how Waleed Aly dealt 415 00:19:46,190 --> 00:19:43,290 with 416 00:19:48,020 --> 00:19:46,200 producer when it came to conspiracy 417 00:19:50,090 --> 00:19:48,030 theories because I note that you wrote 418 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:50,100 on Facebook that Martin Bryant quote 419 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:54,090 allegedly committed the crime what does 420 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:55,770 that meant to mean I mean he's convicted 421 00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:57,930 there's no allegedly about it well I 422 00:20:01,280 --> 00:19:59,280 guess if you want to look at the the 423 00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:01,290 alcohol and discrepancies because I want 424 00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:03,510 to label them necessarily with calling 425 00:20:08,210 --> 00:20:06,510 them conspiracy theories but there are 426 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:08,220 things like because there was no open 427 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:10,970 trial there were never any fingerprints 428 00:20:15,470 --> 00:20:13,650 taken from the scene that proves that 429 00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:15,480 Martin was there there were never any 430 00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:17,310 ballistic evidence matching the firearms 431 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:18,960 to the crime scene or Bryant to the 432 00:20:21,380 --> 00:20:20,250 firearms there's not going to be a 433 00:20:23,150 --> 00:20:21,390 ballistics evidence because there was a 434 00:20:24,980 --> 00:20:23,160 confession but that's not going to be 435 00:20:26,780 --> 00:20:24,990 presented in front of court because 436 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:26,790 there was a confession yeah that's 437 00:20:30,380 --> 00:20:28,650 that's my understanding is well once 438 00:20:32,660 --> 00:20:30,390 somebody pleads guilty you don't have to 439 00:20:34,460 --> 00:20:32,670 provide evidence and so there's nothing 440 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:34,470 to be made you know I guess people have 441 00:20:37,790 --> 00:20:36,210 to understand that this evidence hasn't 442 00:20:39,260 --> 00:20:37,800 been presented publicly of course it 443 00:20:41,030 --> 00:20:39,270 hasn't been presented publicly that's 444 00:20:44,090 --> 00:20:41,040 the way the system works if there was a 445 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:44,100 defensible case in this case it would 446 00:20:47,450 --> 00:20:45,510 have run a trial that's what would 447 00:20:50,660 --> 00:20:47,460 happen and those discrepancies if they 448 00:20:52,460 --> 00:20:50,670 even exist would be discussed and judges 449 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:52,470 would rule on them but the fact that 450 00:20:57,530 --> 00:20:54,510 someone can just say in a case where 451 00:21:00,110 --> 00:20:57,540 there was a conviction and really no 452 00:21:01,850 --> 00:21:00,120 debate about who did this oh look there 453 00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:01,860 was a discrepancy over here that's the 454 00:21:05,810 --> 00:21:03,600 stuff of conspiracy theory that's how 455 00:21:08,330 --> 00:21:05,820 you build a conspiracy theories you try 456 00:21:09,710 --> 00:21:08,340 to inject doubt where there just isn't 457 00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:09,720 any a lot of people out there don't 458 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:11,190 agree with you you just think look 459 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:13,170 there's not enough evidence there are 460 00:21:16,370 --> 00:21:15,090 people are in no position to say that 461 00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:16,380 Paul they were just so there's no 462 00:21:20,450 --> 00:21:18,720 evidence to say that he was they can't 463 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:20,460 say that because it didn't go to trial 464 00:21:25,550 --> 00:21:22,170 we didn't see the evidence because there 465 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:25,560 was a confession so I this is absolutely 466 00:21:29,150 --> 00:21:27,570 unremarkable as a legal proceeding from 467 00:21:30,770 --> 00:21:29,160 what I can tell and it's cell when you 468 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:30,780 say well there's all this stuff out 469 00:21:34,130 --> 00:21:32,130 there that might make it remarkable 470 00:21:35,690 --> 00:21:34,140 that's what leads me to believe there's 471 00:21:37,610 --> 00:21:35,700 something really weird going on here and 472 00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:37,620 I can completely understand why 473 00:21:43,610 --> 00:21:39,240 survivors and their families would say 474 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:43,620 no I'll let a link to that that video in 475 00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:45,210 the show notes this week or if you just 476 00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:48,180 google the project Port Arthur you'll 477 00:21:54,820 --> 00:21:50,820 find that clip conspiracy theories seem 478 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:54,830 to pop up regularly as soon as there's a 479 00:22:01,410 --> 00:21:57,250 large event anywhere in the world 480 00:22:03,540 --> 00:22:01,420 sandy hook for example within it seems 481 00:22:05,850 --> 00:22:03,550 sometimes within minutes the conspiracy 482 00:22:07,770 --> 00:22:05,860 theory start I think it's a sport some 483 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:07,780 people just love to come up with 484 00:22:11,580 --> 00:22:09,250 something instantly to gain notoriety 485 00:22:14,550 --> 00:22:11,590 and conspiracy theories feed on each 486 00:22:18,270 --> 00:22:14,560 other again we get back to the same root 487 00:22:21,420 --> 00:22:18,280 thing of them they call them what you 488 00:22:23,490 --> 00:22:21,430 will the Illuminati the one world 489 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:23,500 government is behind it all why the 490 00:22:29,010 --> 00:22:26,530 course they want to control us and upon 491 00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:29,020 it goes spiraling into a maze as my 492 00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:30,910 friend dr. Phil Plait the bad astronomer 493 00:22:36,620 --> 00:22:33,760 once told me into a maze of unending 494 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:36,630 rooms for which there is no escape 495 00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:40,090 humans are storytelling pattern seeking 496 00:22:46,890 --> 00:22:43,390 animals which means from time to time we 497 00:22:49,380 --> 00:22:46,900 will see patterns where no patterns 498 00:22:52,290 --> 00:22:49,390 exist and if the story associated with a 499 00:22:55,410 --> 00:22:52,300 pattern we think we perceive is enticing 500 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:55,420 interesting a bit daring and we feel 501 00:23:00,120 --> 00:22:57,490 like we might even be uncovering the 502 00:23:02,730 --> 00:23:00,130 truth or getting behind the mystery it's 503 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:02,740 very enticing very seductive and that's 504 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:04,810 why skepticism is so important critical 505 00:23:10,410 --> 00:23:07,210 thinking for when we realize that we are 506 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:10,420 storytelling patent seeking animals with 507 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:12,970 a fallible brain and fallible memory and 508 00:23:18,270 --> 00:23:15,610 reasoning skills then we can stop and 509 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:18,280 question our own assumptions like the 510 00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:20,530 John F Kennedy assassination the Port 511 00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:23,200 Arthur conspiracy theories they won't go 512 00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:25,480 away but it doesn't mean we have to give 513 00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:28,000 up our reasoning skills and fall into 514 00:24:01,360 --> 00:23:58,810 Eric on Australia's only paranormal 515 00:24:03,580 --> 00:24:01,370 conference this year it's going to be at 516 00:24:07,540 --> 00:24:03,590 the Carrington hotel timber in the Blue 517 00:24:09,070 --> 00:24:07,550 Mountains on may 28 and 29 so if you're 518 00:24:11,860 --> 00:24:09,080 into the paranormal two spookier 519 00:24:14,170 --> 00:24:11,870 mysterious the supernatural ghost 520 00:24:16,540 --> 00:24:14,180 hunters UFOs everywhere that sort of 521 00:24:19,150 --> 00:24:16,550 stuff this is the conference for you 522 00:24:22,060 --> 00:24:19,160 lots of our local and international 523 00:24:24,490 --> 00:24:22,070 guests coming in to talk including yours 524 00:24:26,860 --> 00:24:24,500 truly and you can catch my talk as 525 00:24:29,260 --> 00:24:26,870 skeptics guide to passing the million 526 00:24:33,130 --> 00:24:29,270 dollar challenge and it'll be on the 527 00:24:34,930 --> 00:24:33,140 saturday night from 7pm to 8 p.m. for 528 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:34,940 more information and to buy your tickets 529 00:24:40,420 --> 00:24:39,290 visit Paracon australia calm and don't 530 00:24:42,790 --> 00:24:40,430 forget if you just want to come along 531 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:42,800 and see my talk you can just buy a 532 00:24:47,140 --> 00:24:44,690 ticket for my talk and that's at the 533 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:47,150 bargain price of twenty-five dollars or 534 00:24:51,670 --> 00:24:49,130 you can buy a one day or two day pass 535 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:51,680 and see the whole kit and caboodle so if 536 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:53,210 you're interested about more details 537 00:24:58,120 --> 00:24:56,090 about their various skeptical challenges 538 00:25:00,910 --> 00:24:58,130 around the world for large amounts of 539 00:25:02,350 --> 00:25:00,920 money or you want to apply oh yes if you 540 00:25:05,650 --> 00:25:02,360 have a paranormal or supernatural 541 00:25:30,090 --> 00:25:05,660 ability you can prove then come and see 542 00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:33,720 from the Brisbane times at www Brisbane 543 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:38,559 times com not a you by Sarah Gill anti 544 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:42,250 immunization movie vax is a platform for 545 00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:45,250 its maker not its message amid world 546 00:25:50,430 --> 00:25:47,860 immunization week a film by a frontman 547 00:25:53,610 --> 00:25:50,440 for the anti-vaccination movement is 548 00:25:57,150 --> 00:25:53,620 being rolled out in US cinemas published 549 00:25:59,820 --> 00:25:57,160 on April 27 a new film by Andrew 550 00:26:01,860 --> 00:25:59,830 Wakefield disgraced former doctor and 551 00:26:04,380 --> 00:26:01,870 poster boy for the anti-vaccination 552 00:26:07,710 --> 00:26:04,390 movement is being rolled out in cinemas 553 00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:07,720 across the United States what more one 554 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:10,000 wonders could Wakefield possibly have to 555 00:26:16,140 --> 00:26:12,970 offer on this topic given his deplorable 556 00:26:18,299 --> 00:26:16,150 conduct in the late 1990s when he 557 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:18,309 essentially fabricated a link between 558 00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:21,130 autism and the combined measles mumps 559 00:26:26,370 --> 00:26:23,679 and rubella vaccine that caused the 560 00:26:27,539 --> 00:26:26,380 worldwide vaccination scare what 561 00:26:30,299 --> 00:26:27,549 followed over the next two decades 562 00:26:32,510 --> 00:26:30,309 including mind-blowing revelations of 563 00:26:34,919 --> 00:26:32,520 dishonesty fraud avarice and chicanery 564 00:26:38,130 --> 00:26:34,929 accumulated in Wakefield's medical 565 00:26:40,380 --> 00:26:38,140 deregistration in 2010 apparently 566 00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:40,390 undeterred by this litany of prime 567 00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:43,809 misdemeanors Wakefield's film vax from 568 00:26:49,260 --> 00:26:47,049 cover-up to catastrophe simply sidesteps 569 00:26:52,289 --> 00:26:49,270 his past and reprises the causal link 570 00:26:54,270 --> 00:26:52,299 between MMR vaccine and autism this time 571 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:54,280 accusing the US Center for Disease 572 00:26:59,490 --> 00:26:56,890 Control of scientific fraud by 573 00:27:01,500 --> 00:26:59,500 manipulating data to conceal the 574 00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:01,510 correlation between the triple shot and 575 00:27:07,380 --> 00:27:05,289 autism pot kettle black after being 576 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:07,390 dumped by the prestigious tribeca film 577 00:27:12,049 --> 00:27:09,850 festival in March following condemnation 578 00:27:15,390 --> 00:27:12,059 from the international science community 579 00:27:17,730 --> 00:27:15,400 vax premiered in New York on April first 580 00:27:20,159 --> 00:27:17,740 the only day of the year so they say 581 00:27:22,110 --> 00:27:20,169 when people critically evaluate 582 00:27:25,620 --> 00:27:22,120 information rather than taking it on 583 00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:25,630 faith let's hope so as global milestones 584 00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:28,000 for measles elimination start to slip 585 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:30,700 amid recent outbreaks in Australia New 586 00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:32,890 Zealand Britain in the United States to 587 00:27:37,490 --> 00:27:35,049 say that this latest offering is 588 00:27:41,399 --> 00:27:37,500 seriously unhelpful is an understatement 589 00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:41,409 the original 1998 Lancet paper now 590 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:43,900 retracted may have been comprehend 591 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:46,210 sively demolished by subsequent research 592 00:27:50,990 --> 00:27:49,210 and crippled by revelations of the 593 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:51,000 author's peculiar interests and 594 00:27:55,860 --> 00:27:54,130 falsification of data but that doesn't 595 00:27:57,570 --> 00:27:55,870 mean the narrative still doesn't 596 00:27:59,880 --> 00:27:57,580 resonate with some sectors of the 597 00:28:01,440 --> 00:27:59,890 community indeed two weeks after pulling 598 00:28:04,140 --> 00:28:01,450 the film from the festival programme 599 00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:04,150 Tribeca co-founder Robert De Niro made a 600 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:07,120 spectacular you turn on the Today TV 601 00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:09,490 show defending the filmmakers and urging 602 00:28:13,290 --> 00:28:11,500 people to see the film as it happens 603 00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:13,300 being ditched from the first of a lineup 604 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:15,760 in New York and Houston where people 605 00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:18,010 took to the streets in protest doesn't 606 00:28:21,660 --> 00:28:19,750 appear to have damaged the interest in 607 00:28:23,790 --> 00:28:21,670 the film or damaged its commercial 608 00:28:25,860 --> 00:28:23,800 prospects New York screenings 609 00:28:28,530 --> 00:28:25,870 accompanied by talks with Wakefield were 610 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:28,540 sold out and the film's Facebook page 611 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:32,050 even hints and level of enthusiasm for 612 00:28:36,810 --> 00:28:34,210 an Australian release Wakefield and 613 00:28:38,850 --> 00:28:36,820 Baxter producer Dell big tree have 614 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:38,860 described the decision not to screen the 615 00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:42,490 film as quote yet another example of the 616 00:28:48,270 --> 00:28:44,710 power of corporate interests censoring 617 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:48,280 free speech art and truth tribeca's 618 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:50,530 action will not succeed in denying the 619 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:52,690 world access to the truth behind the 620 00:28:57,540 --> 00:28:55,570 film vax to encode and their statement 621 00:28:59,820 --> 00:28:57,550 dovetails selectively with the film's 622 00:29:02,430 --> 00:28:59,830 central narrative but what the 623 00:29:04,860 --> 00:29:02,440 filmmakers and nero are asserting that 624 00:29:07,470 --> 00:29:04,870 different points of view deserve to be 625 00:29:09,870 --> 00:29:07,480 aired not censored lively overlooks that 626 00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:09,880 this is not just about the message but 627 00:29:15,450 --> 00:29:12,640 the messenger as one film critic comment 628 00:29:18,090 --> 00:29:15,460 quote Wakefield doesn't just have a dog 629 00:29:20,430 --> 00:29:18,100 in this fight he is the dog in quote 630 00:29:22,020 --> 00:29:20,440 there is something profoundly ironic 631 00:29:23,370 --> 00:29:22,030 about Wakefield pointing to the 632 00:29:25,410 --> 00:29:23,380 commercial interests of the 633 00:29:28,110 --> 00:29:25,420 pharmaceutical industry or accusing the 634 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:28,120 CD CD of data manipulation when you 635 00:29:34,020 --> 00:29:30,610 consider his own undisclosed financial 636 00:29:36,930 --> 00:29:34,030 interests behind the 1998 Lancet study 637 00:29:39,150 --> 00:29:36,940 and his role in what has been called out 638 00:29:41,580 --> 00:29:39,160 to be one of the most flagrant frauds in 639 00:29:44,550 --> 00:29:41,590 medical history it's not a stretch to 640 00:29:46,350 --> 00:29:44,560 say that the title of his new film could 641 00:29:49,290 --> 00:29:46,360 well describe the shenanigans of 642 00:29:51,540 --> 00:29:49,300 Wakefield himself in the late 90s the 643 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:51,550 cover up being the secret contract with 644 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:53,770 lawyers who paid him to construct a case 645 00:29:57,660 --> 00:29:56,530 against MMR and the catastrophe of 646 00:30:00,510 --> 00:29:57,670 course 647 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:00,520 worldwide slump in vaccination don't be 648 00:30:05,310 --> 00:30:02,890 fooled wakefield story is not a tale of 649 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:05,320 a man wrong by powerful corporations or 650 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:07,930 the medical establishment which in fact 651 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:10,330 closed ranks to protect him it's a story 652 00:30:15,420 --> 00:30:12,730 of a physician who set out to cast doubt 653 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:15,430 on vaccine safety before he even 654 00:30:21,060 --> 00:30:18,850 gathered the evidence and he did so not 655 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:21,070 for the public good but for private game 656 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:24,130 if this sounds personal that's because 657 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:27,010 it is scores of parents in the early 658 00:30:34,020 --> 00:30:30,610 2000s my self included Harvard a deep 659 00:30:36,660 --> 00:30:34,030 sense of unease about the 18 month MMR 660 00:30:39,780 --> 00:30:36,670 and solely because of a small inclusive 661 00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:39,790 but nonetheless troubling study by a man 662 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:41,830 uniquely positioned to exploit our 663 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:44,650 greatest fears Wakefield's hunger for 664 00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:46,690 media attention his ferocious personal 665 00:30:52,290 --> 00:30:48,960 ambition and cunning business dealings 666 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:52,300 included a patent filed in 1997 for a 667 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:54,850 vaccine to replace the triple shot and 668 00:31:00,180 --> 00:30:57,370 generate millions of pounds in general 669 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:00,190 revenue we're a toxic mix and not so 670 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:03,490 much it seems has changed if you scratch 671 00:31:07,230 --> 00:31:05,410 the surface of vax that's hardly 672 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:07,240 surprising to discover the whole thing 673 00:31:14,850 --> 00:31:10,930 starts to disintegrate the reanalysis of 674 00:31:17,270 --> 00:31:14,860 the cdc data set alleging a correlation 675 00:31:20,250 --> 00:31:17,280 between MMR vaccine and autism in 676 00:31:22,830 --> 00:31:20,260 african-american males published in 2014 677 00:31:25,140 --> 00:31:22,840 has now been retracted with the journal 678 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:25,150 editors citing questionable methods of 679 00:31:29,670 --> 00:31:28,090 quote undeclared competing interests on 680 00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:29,680 the part of the author unquote 681 00:31:35,070 --> 00:31:32,260 lamentably that hasn't stopped it going 682 00:31:37,710 --> 00:31:35,080 viral online or prompting mass rallies 683 00:31:40,260 --> 00:31:37,720 like the one which took place at the CDC 684 00:31:42,510 --> 00:31:40,270 in Atlanta last weekend a symptom 685 00:31:44,730 --> 00:31:42,520 perhaps of our enduring fascination for 686 00:31:46,260 --> 00:31:44,740 conspiracy theories your pediatrician 687 00:31:49,290 --> 00:31:46,270 and bioethicists that john hopkins 688 00:31:52,380 --> 00:31:49,300 berman institute of bioethics observed 689 00:31:54,930 --> 00:31:52,390 in 2014 but those behind the study quote 690 00:31:57,900 --> 00:31:54,940 manipulated the data and manipulated the 691 00:32:01,020 --> 00:31:57,910 media in a very savvy and sophisticated 692 00:32:03,570 --> 00:32:01,030 way in quote and continue to do so 693 00:32:05,340 --> 00:32:03,580 needless the same none of this is to 694 00:32:07,470 --> 00:32:05,350 suggest of course that there's never a 695 00:32:09,630 --> 00:32:07,480 conflict of interest between private 696 00:32:11,549 --> 00:32:09,640 enterprise and public good or that 697 00:32:14,369 --> 00:32:11,559 scrutiny a pharmaceutical company 698 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:14,379 responsible God knows for their share of 699 00:32:19,110 --> 00:32:16,330 public health catastrophes is 700 00:32:21,779 --> 00:32:19,120 unwarranted but if we really object to 701 00:32:23,399 --> 00:32:21,789 being lied to if we'd prefer not to 702 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:23,409 sacrifice the greater good of the 703 00:32:27,869 --> 00:32:25,210 community for the benefit of the 704 00:32:29,879 --> 00:32:27,879 privileged few then why would we not 705 00:32:33,389 --> 00:32:29,889 apply the same level of scrutiny to 706 00:32:35,970 --> 00:32:33,399 anyone with a profit motive who knows if 707 00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:35,980 Wakefield and his associates are true to 708 00:32:41,610 --> 00:32:38,559 form vax is just another desperate 709 00:32:44,899 --> 00:32:41,620 attempt to hoodwink the public for no 710 00:32:47,789 --> 00:32:44,909 greater purpose than making money and 711 00:32:50,249 --> 00:32:47,799 Zira Gil is an aged columnist who has 712 00:32:52,590 --> 00:32:50,259 worked as a writer and policy analyst 713 00:32:54,930 --> 00:32:52,600 she is undertaking postgraduate Legal 714 00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:54,940 Studies at the University of Western 715 00:32:59,279 --> 00:32:57,279 Australia and this story comes to us 716 00:33:02,159 --> 00:32:59,289 from the Brisbane times at Brisbane 717 00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:02,169 times com au and the accompanying 718 00:33:09,330 --> 00:33:05,049 cartoon illustrated by john spooner 719 00:33:12,539 --> 00:33:09,340 depicts a skeleton like the Grim Reaper 720 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:12,549 in a director's chair and the skeleton 721 00:33:18,259 --> 00:33:16,330 is saying lies camera action and on the 722 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:18,269 back of the chair it says director 723 00:33:32,890 --> 00:33:41,440 you 724 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:45,499 dr. Harriet hall md no into thousands as 725 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:48,570 the skeptic a retired family physician 726 00:33:53,749 --> 00:33:51,690 and former Air Force flight surgeon she 727 00:33:55,450 --> 00:33:53,759 writes about medicine so called 728 00:33:59,320 --> 00:33:55,460 complementary and alternative medicine 729 00:34:02,389 --> 00:33:59,330 science pakery and critical thinking 730 00:34:04,850 --> 00:34:02,399 Harriet now has a free course a series 731 00:34:08,030 --> 00:34:04,860 of ten video lectures on science based 732 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:08,040 medicine and alternative medicine the 733 00:34:12,169 --> 00:34:10,050 videos and an accompanying course guide 734 00:34:16,099 --> 00:34:12,179 can be found by following the link at 735 00:34:20,119 --> 00:34:16,109 skeptic dot info or by visiting web 736 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:20,129 Randy's org slash educational dash 737 00:34:27,589 --> 00:34:24,510 modules dot HTML topics covered in the 738 00:34:30,730 --> 00:34:27,599 series are science-based medicine vs. 739 00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:30,740 evidence-based medicine what is cam 740 00:34:37,339 --> 00:34:34,159 chiropractic acupuncture homeopathy 741 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:37,349 naturopathy and herbal medicine energy 742 00:34:42,619 --> 00:34:39,450 medicine miscellaneous alternatives 743 00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:42,629 pitfalls in research and science-based 744 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:45,919 medicine in the media and politics 745 00:34:51,230 --> 00:34:48,690 Harriet covers each topic in a matter of 746 00:35:15,030 --> 00:34:51,240 fact no-nonsense way that sure to 747 00:35:20,410 --> 00:35:17,530 thank you for listening to the skeptic 748 00:35:22,930 --> 00:35:20,420 zone boy those kittens love their their 749 00:35:25,330 --> 00:35:22,940 bit of chicken neck crunch crunch crunch 750 00:35:27,610 --> 00:35:25,340 and what's really sweet is when they get 751 00:35:30,130 --> 00:35:27,620 tired they look for a lap and up they 752 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:30,140 pop oh yeah anyway coming up on next 753 00:35:34,210 --> 00:35:31,810 week's show will have some reports from 754 00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:34,220 skeptics in the pub probably some more 755 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:36,320 about conspiracy theories but sometimes 756 00:35:39,610 --> 00:35:38,210 I don't even know what's coming up on 757 00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:39,620 next week's show it's a surprise to me 758 00:35:43,150 --> 00:35:41,510 that's why I'd like to listen thank you 759 00:35:46,060 --> 00:35:43,160 to all those people who do contribute to 760 00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:46,070 the skeptic zone via paypal at skeptic 761 00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:49,040 zone TV micro payments some people chip 762 00:35:53,620 --> 00:35:50,960 in a dollar a week some people chip in 763 00:35:56,140 --> 00:35:53,630 five dollars and even more it's all very 764 00:35:59,200 --> 00:35:56,150 much appreciated and it does mean the 765 00:36:02,680 --> 00:35:59,210 show keeps going even if my voice 766 00:36:04,810 --> 00:36:02,690 doesn't earn all right that's time for 767 00:36:07,450 --> 00:36:04,820 me to have a bit of a lie-down rest my 768 00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:07,460 voice for next week's show but for now 769 00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:09,440 this is Richard Saunders signing off 770 00:36:17,940 --> 00:36:16,310 from Sydney Australia you've been 771 00:36:21,460 --> 00:36:17,950 listening to the skeptics own podcast 772 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:21,470 visit our website at wwc a petting zoo 773 00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:24,530 TV for contacts and archive of all 774 00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:28,400 episodes since 2008 and our online store 775 00:36:33,420 --> 00:36:30,710 please support the skeptic zone by 776 00:36:36,430 --> 00:36:33,430 following us on twitter at skeptic zone 777 00:36:39,490 --> 00:36:36,440 liking us on facebook and leaving a 778 00:36:42,340 --> 00:36:39,500 review on iTunes you can also show your 779 00:36:45,820 --> 00:36:42,350 support by subscribing via paypal for as 780 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:45,830 little as 99 cents a week the skeptic 781 00:36:49,870 --> 00:36:48,170 zone is an independent production the 782 00:36:51,940 --> 00:36:49,880 views and opinions expressed on the 783 00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:51,950 skeptic zone and not necessarily those 784 00:37:03,489 --> 00:36:54,640 of Australian skepta tea or any other 785 00:37:08,449 --> 00:37:06,229 what followed over the next decade